65 replies to this topic

[orphadeus]

Do you think some people who are intelligent, sensible, no danger to themselves, no danger to anyone else, able to look after themselves, may be being held in psychiatric hospitals in the UK and injected with drugs against their will for not conforming to social norms ('unable to look after themselves')?

[Helium]

Do you think some people who are intelligent, sensible, no danger to themselves, no danger to anyone else, able to look after themselves, may be being held in psychiatric hospitals in the UK and injected with drugs against their will for not conforming to social norms ('unable to look after themselves')?

I think the question is contradictory - you say that they are able to look after themselves and then qualify your definition of not conforming to social norms as ' ('unable to look after themselves') '.

Could you possibly clarify by giving an example of what you mean?

[ice]

not anymore, those we are under sections are they because their doctors see no other options, it is not policy to bring clients into hospital, unless there is no other options

[Helium]

not anymore, those we are under sections are they because their doctors see no other options, it is not policy to bring clients into hospital, unless there is no other options

In the absence of a better understanding of what the question meant, I agree with you Ice.

The cost associated with the care of people with even severe mental health problems and the move towards Care in the Community makes it far more likely that people who do need help are not getting it rather than the other way around.

[Harlequin]

What has the mental health of people got to do with "social conditioning"?

Social conditioning is what we do to children, we teach then our values so as to prepare them for life in our social group.


But to return to the original question and examine it.

Why would hospitals want to keep perfectly sane and mentaly healthy people drugged up?

Or have I got to move this thread to the conspiracies section?

[oolongcha]

I was thinking of something similar: why on earth would mental health institutions - the first of any cuts to the NHS - want to lock up perfectly healthy people?

[Harlequin]

Well I've had a moment or two to think about what Ordy is trying to say...or what I think he's trying to say.

And I have the following response.

People who are in the "care of the community" and kept on drugs/medication/whatever, are usually kept that way...not to "keep them within the social norm" (whatever that is!!) for the sake of the state(?)...it's because if you take them off those drugs...if you are lucky...really lucky...the only thing they will do is kill themselves.

Now you can be harsh and say "so what? No loss"...but is that the kind of society you want to live in really?

Have a look at the chances of anyone needing psychiatric help duing their life (It's high)...it could be you.


And let's have another "reality check" while we are here. Most crimes/murders/social deviances/whatever are commited by sane people...or what is considered sane by society. I have my doubts about society being sane, but that's another story.

[Helium]

What has the mental health of people got to do with "social conditioning"?

Social conditioning is what we do to children, we teach then our values so as to prepare them for life in our social group.


But to return to the original question and examine it.

Why would hospitals want to keep perfectly sane and mentaly healthy people drugged up?

Or have I got to move this thread to the conspiracies section?

Are psychiatric hospitals not designed for people with mental health problems then? Maybe I misread the question but I assumed that if there were any truth to the scenario that Ophadeus proposed, the grounds for keeping people locked up would be based on mental health issues rather than social norms or conditioning - certainly as recorded on their records in this day and age anyway.

I wouldn't necessarily agree that this has always been the case though. It's been well documented that in the past single mothers and their illegitimate offspring have been known to be institutionalised in psychiatric hospitals, in some cases for the rest of their lives, for their perceived inability to conform to social norms. This is part of the reason why I agreed with Ice when she said, "not anymore" in her response.

As for your question, "Why would hospitals want to keep perfectly sane and mentaly healthy people drugged up?", I don't think they would... particularly because of the costs involved.

As for whether it should be sent to the conspiracies section... you'll have to take that up with Orphadeus

[Elixir]

Does Awphy think that mental illness just means `not as the norm`?
As in perfectly healthy, just not like `the norm`?

Maybe hinting that people are wrongly judged as having a mental illness when actually they dont?

Isnt that was he is getting at?

[Harlequin]

I wouldn't necessarily agree that this has always been the case though. It's been well documented that in the past single mothers and their illegitimate offspring have been known to be institutionalised in psychiatric hospitals, in some cases for the rest of their lives, for their perceived inability to conform to social norms. This is part of the reason why I agreed with Ice when she said, "not anymore" in her response.

You are of course quite right in that. I only looked at todays attitude, not a historical one.

[easylife]

Do you think some people who are intelligent, sensible, no danger to themselves, no danger to anyone else, able to look after themselves, may be being held in psychiatric hospitals in the UK and injected with drugs against their will for not conforming to social norms ('unable to look after themselves')?

I think awphs getting worried and he is planning for the future

[Harlequin]

Does Awphy think that mental illness just means `not as the norm`?
As in perfectly healthy, just not like `the norm`?

Maybe hinting that people are wrongly judged as having a mental illness when actually they dont?

Isnt that was he is getting at?

Possibly.

But the chances of someone just not conforming to the norm being mistaken for mentally ill I think is quite slim.

The days of it being just one doctors (psychiatrist) opinion on any case just doesn't happen. Unless I'm mistaken the scenario is...a consultant and a whole team of doctors and nurses ect. They DO discuss whatever the patient has bothering him/her.

[Elixir]

Yeah, but Im thinking Awph may be biased about that.

[easylife]

just say wha you mean, hes a nutter

[Harlequin]

Yeah, but Im thinking Awph may be biased about that.

Well he's got the choices.

Trust the insitutions and doctors to help/heal/cure/whatever.

Or let those with mental illnesess be classed as socially "different"...and let them take their chances.