http://www.thevenusproject.com/


I've been looking at this...I suspect I may believe in it.


Anyone care to look into it and tell me why I shouldn't?

From what was mentioned at the end of Zeitgeist: Addendum, it seems like a good idea but i think there is alot of wishful thinking involved. They mention that no law enforcement will be required because there is no monitory value, but not all crime is for monitory gain. Rape, and murder for example. Most of these crimes are done just for the thrills.

As they say, it's not perfect but it's better than what we have at the moment.

I too doubt that we wouldn't need law enforcement of some kind, I just suspect we wouldn't need quite as much as we have at the moment. The same would apply to armed forces.
At least I now know who was behind Zeitgeist, I'd suspected the film was made by the Islamist. It's nice to see that the concept was of a more high minded group.

It's almost like some bastard "eco-marxist" theory. Yes strip away all the money and distribute the earths natural resources equally amogst everyone. Key bit in the few paragraphs I read.............



.......or translated "Never going to happen!"

Salesman :"Hello Mr Medvedev sorry to bother you but we recently sent you a Venus Project brochure and we were wondering if you would like to follow up by opting in?"

Medvedev: "Niet"

Salesman: "What about Mr Putin? Has he shown any interest?"

Medvedev: "Niet!"

Salesman: "Okay thanks for your time, I shall leave you to your Borsch and Vodka as I have a follow up call to do with Mr Ahmadinejad!"

Just all a bit wooly in thinking for my liking all though the picture painted sounds lovely - it's a bit like listening to Vince Cable.

Neatly put. Yet if the current model for society doesn't work, shouldn't we at least look at new models?

We need to look at the next step for society (whether we want to or not). We've tried being led by bureaucrats...why not try being led by the "doers" for a change?

But if the "doers" become leaders, then they're not "doers" any more, they're bureaucrats.

I'll not persue this topic any further...I've spoken to a few on this topic, and the conditioning and apathy will defeat any attempts to change.

I've also just been out and viewed the behaviour of some of my fellow humans, and I now believe that we are not fit to move on...the Neanderthal strain is still with us.

Ug

I wasn't refering to you...you dingbat.

Then again, we may be moving into the venus projecy territory anyway, I effectively work for nothing anyway...what I mean is it's been at least two weeks since I actually had any cash in my hand, all my transactions are by electronic transfer - money that doesnt actually exist transfered into banks that don't have cash. So in reality...I work for nothing.

Add that Honda "Clarity" and few other steps forward, and the only thing holding us back is people.

You don't work for nothing, you work for credit. This credit can be converted into cash by drawing it from a bank or ATM, should you wish.



Sorry, I don't understand this, can you explain further?

Here's the Honda car.... http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/

Worldwide instant communication via mobile phone...My friends can be anywhere on the globe, not just within a few miles of where I live.

And I know about the credit/payment bit...but If I choose to never use cash (which I can) then my overdraft means I've so much leaway in what is actually in there, then whether there is "money" regularly going in or not is irrelevant. So long as I keep working and I stay within my means, then in effect...I don't use money!

It's a mental leap that has taken 52 years to get here, but I've discovered greed sucks. I don't need anything more than what I have.

I've said it before but I am going to say it again (and again and again prob) - the solution to the "Global Economic Crisis"? Encourage greed. Take the car scrappage scheme. £2000 off the price of a brand new car if you trade in your old car of ten years or more. Firstly anybody who has a car of ten years or more (for example - me) has one because they are unable to afford a new car. Secondly because the car industry as a whole is on it's knees the fundamental solution to save thousands of jobs is to encourage greed by dangling a carrot on a string in front of motorists who just can't afford to service their ailing motor. "Don't go out there and buy a second hand car out of Auto-Trader that you can afford, that you know is within your means. No come to your local smarmy bastard car dealership and watch them add £2000 in interest onto the price of that new car you can't really afford."

Venus Project by comparison is actually not a million miles off a step in the right direction.

At least the idea had thought

Better than many projects that start now...

Good Grief talk about a pipe dream!

Okay, I'm afraid I am going to have to beat you all with a very big stick.

Exhibit A



Exhibit B



Exhibit C



Need I say more. I got these images, except the Thunderbirds Tracy Island from an e-book from the Venus project website entitled designing the future. Have to admit, love the artwork, very retro.

Now you all know me well enough by now, and how on occasions I have moaned on about a better future and my hopes and dreams. However I refuse to be taken in by any of this dribble, I had a good look through this site, who’s running this operation. I have a vision of some kind of James Bond super villain, like Drax off Moonraker wanting to release nerve gas into the atmosphere wiping out all but a handful of the population.

Don’t get me wrong the idea of a Utopian society complete with Gerry Anderson landscape, architecture and technology sounds fantastic but it ain’t going to happen, and the term ‘doers’ sounds a little too Scientology to me.

There is one thing us humans have in common with most of the animal kingdom and we rely on a society with an alpha male. You stick six guys on a desert island and you can bet your bananas someone in that group will want to take change, he’ll appoint a number one and two, and the other three are workers, fetch the firewood, build me a hut, and so on its human nature, there are born leaders and there are born workers. So this idea that everyone gets an equal share of everything and an equal say in everything is as realistic as the current Labour Government.

Whilst I doubt the Venus Project or even the same idea under a different name, will ever become a reality i do believe their ideas taken singularly and applied to society now, would bring about dramatic positive change.

One of the main one's I'm talking about is the requirement to constantly move forward, especially technologically. One of the examples they pointed out was the use of Mag-trains over aircraft. If there's a better option out there, why aren't we bloody well using it? Even on a much smaller scale, Kettles. I bet everyone ready this thread right now has a kettle in their home. Why? Your average kettle takes a minute or two to boil, and yet there's stuff like this out there that'll do it in seconds. Why doesn't everyone have one then? Sure the technology isn't perfect, but surely any improvement is worth grasping with both hands?

Trouble is, it doesn't dispense boiling water.It heats water to a max 82 degrees, not hot enough for tea. So you still have to have a kettle.

Hense why i said the technology isn't perfect.

So, you can't make tea with it, or milk for babies bottles or anything that requires boiling water. Less than perfect, I'd say useless, because you still need a kettle, so what's the point?

Fair enough, a poor example on my part, but lets not let it sidetrack us.

The fact is there's countless pieces of new technology that are vastly superior to the technology prior to them, and yet for various reasons is being left unused. For fears of leaving people unemployed because it relieves the necessity of their job roles, is one of those reasons. So what!? It removed the mundane jobs from society and allows man to better ourselves, and yet because were afraid of hurting someone's feeling's in the short term, we won't allow it. It truly is madness.

Trouble is there are, & will always be, bits of new technology that are vastly superior to people. While this has always been the case it seems to be accelerating. I can remember a time when this was looked forward to,e.g. more leisure time. The problem is that to enjoy more leisure time costs money & if your job has been taken by a machine, then you have very little money. So you get a job that pays less than your last one but you still have less money to spend.

I can see a time coming when our welfare state will collapse under the shear numbers of people making demands on it through no fault of their own. There won't be enough people working to maintain the system.
I can see this happening in your generations lifetime, so start to prepare for it as soon as you can. Be careful with your money, live within your means, save & invest wisely but also enjoy your life as much as you can, it's the only life you will ever have.

Demand for a leisurely existence far outstrips our economic means to achieve it. If you start to mechanise one job it encourages development of newer (or improved) technologies to perform other jobs, tasks or duties. In times of economic hardship the cost of maintenance of machines is far less than a payroll list of hundreds of people wanting wages. Also employment law problems, fairness and equality and union issues melt away when you have little or no human input to govern. Machines don't need holidays or time off sick. Machines don't have babies and nor do they mind working the bank holiday.

At what point do we say "hang on" - surely we have to remember that we built the structures we live and work in, we built the institutuions of our society, we continue to breed and populate the planet and encourage the growth of cultural and economic growth. We cannot allow ourselves to essentially modernise ourselves out of work and in time potentially out of existence altogether?

You've skirted round the main nub of the problem i think. The ideal idea would be if you get laid off from a mundane job and get replaced by a machine, you retrain for a job that isn't mundane and isn't likely to be replaced by a machine (or atleast not for the foreseeable future). Problem is some people either can't, or can't be arsed to retrain because they see the short term flaws and not the long term benefits.

Then change human thinking. The fault is with the dreamer - not the dream.

I've been talking to the venus project people a lot lately, and I've drawn the conclusion that the whole project is not for us, we are too entrenched in our current greed based society.
And while the whole project may indeed be so much cultist crap (though they fight like hell to keep those dingbats out of it), at least they are looking at alternatives.

The current swing by the banking system and employers is dehumanising us. We ARE taking massive steps backwards to a slavery society.

Don't believe me?

Why the rush to get rid of skilled manpower and subsitute it with a "flexible labour force" of unskilled workers?

Why get rid of all production of basic materials - in favour of a service industry?

It all points to removing the power of the basic worker. Wages static while inflation and taxation rise, you daren't loose your job because there's nothing to replace it. You daren't take time off because you can't afford the loss of pay. You may even have to find a second job just to maintain your standard of living now.

More work, for less and less with fiscal penalties replacing the whip.

No the VP might not work, but do we want the ultimate outcome of the current system?